Spend a significant amount of time with the business outside of the CFO's office. I have a favorite saying, because I come from the logistics transportation business. You need you need to go kick the tires and smell the diesel. If you don't do that, you know, you you you're not really understanding the end to end, value proposition. Why is the customer using you? What is what is different about your services? Why is the customer ready to pay, for value added services? So, truly understanding your business operations, if you want to be a business partner and you want to be a value partner, you really need to be able to understand the entire business. And for a CFO who's not grown up within that business, it's, it's a greater challenge. If you come through that business and you come through and grown through the ranks, it actually is sometimes significantly easier because you understand all the moving parts. A CFO has a vantage point in terms of, you know, has a front seat, is able to see across the organization because finance really touches every part of the organization. And so, before one settles in and gets too comfortable in their CFO's chair, I would suggest get on the road, go around. If you have production facilities, visit them. If you have research and development facilities and product development facilities, if you need to understand how the marketing engine works and how the revenue engine works and what are your key products and what are your key services. And you have to understand that entire landscape, to really understand how to create value. So, in the first ninety days, I would have visited the key locations, the key production sites, service delivery sites, and I've spent time with each of those leaders. I talked about the the gap, the business guidance gap. I would start with asking the question, is finance giving you what you need to conduct your business? Operations, ask the sales and marketing, organization. Are they getting what they need to make the decisions? And and so every part of the, you know, collaborating across functions is easier said than done unless you really understand what what each of the functions needs from a finance support and finance business partnering perspective. It's really difficult to then close that guidance gap. So those are the areas where I would focus on, as I went in, other than, you know, I don't want to say ignore the governance side. The governance side is absolutely critical, making sure you have clean audits and you have a very solid balance sheet in terms of all the reconciliations and controls are in place, and you have internal controls over financial reporting. And all of that is a given, but the aspect of understanding the business in order to provide business guidance, is absolutely critical to start off with.

And it's an interesting point, isn't it? And that I, oh, I would actually, say that even if you are in that role, that same process would still apply. So there is something about looking at all of those operations with, you know, the eye of a CFO rather than, you know, within finance. Because if you've not had the chance to do that within that finance controller role, there's a real opportunity to to to to make sure what you think you've understood from within that finance team is also what is actually happening out, you know, out there with your stakeholders.

Exactly right.

So, you mentioned a few other mindsets. So we very much been talking about that value creation mindset. Well, what, and you you referred earlier to a few others that you you think are important for any new CFO. So tell us a little bit more about those. What do those look like?

Let's talk about switching gears from value creation mindset to, a mindset that really adopts automation technology. And then related to that is, analytic mindset in terms of leveraging data. The explosion in the amount of data that is available within the organization, and achieving efficiencies within the finance processes and having this technology mindset, they're all kind of interrelated. Finance really needs to lead on what is our data model, who owns that data. And there is a certain portion of the data, which should be owned by the CFO. And, and that data to decision process needs this real data analytics mindset. So it's related to value creating. It's an enabler for value creating for value creation, but having this mindset that where can I get the most relevant data to make the decision is absolutely critical? What we saw through the pandemic, for example, all the trends that we were used to were not an indication of the future because, the level of demand, the, the level of supply, the level of prices, everything was upended. And so if you were relying just on, data that was historic, you would not be able to forecast very quickly how to respond to the unfolding situation. And so, having this data analytics mindset, thinking about external sources of data, can I use proxies? Can I use, flight data? You know, how many how many people are getting on planes and how many people are traveling? Can I use traffic data to see where are people going now? You know, if if retail stores are opening up in in other locations. So what I'm trying to say is having an open mind to the data that's available, not just within the enterprise, but outside the enterprise, then being able to leverage that data through technology, analyze that data and really help the organization forecast better levels of demand so that they can meet the needs of the customer. That's critical in terms of having that mindset of data and analytics. And related to that is automation and technology. How can I, how can I, change my legacy processes? How can I re engineer my legacy processes so that I can really apply technology that enables me to automate? So having a mindset that says I'm going to standardize. And if I can standardize, then I can automate. And understanding what type of technologies and and there there aren't that many technologies to get your head around in terms of automation. It's really the robotic process automation, and there are several players in that field, but understanding how RPA works, understanding how you can automate because the, opportunity to automate even today is significant to have a cloud first mentality to have a digital first mindset is really critical. And so this mindset is really around embracing technology, embracing automation and leveraging data and the technologies that can really drive, value creation. So again, kind of feeds back into the value creation story, but the speed of data to decision really will determine a enterprise's competitive advantage. The sooner you're able to decide and act, you might be moving ahead of competition.

And there was an interesting trend. So I literally, recorded, another podcast this week where we'd, with a, a tech basically, technology and digital transformation company. And they were saying one of the most interesting things is this eighty twenty rule when it comes to both data and technology and that you can automate about an eighty percent of what, you know, what you do. But it's that twenty percent that holds you back from that full automation. So I loved your comment about standardization because I think that's one of the big challenges within finance is removing, you know, those complexities that I think sometimes finance absorbs on behalf of the rest of the organization, and that you know, once you can start to to to get through those, I think there's a there's a massive power in what we can do in finance, once you start to get through, you know, all those weird and wonderful scenarios that fight you know, that sales will put forwards and finance have to deal with. So

Absolutely. And and and, also, Hannah, really, what one should be looking at is the the twenty first century enterprise systems have really done a great service to businesses and to CFOs. And what they've done is they've taken best practice processes and they've actually engineered them into the technology. And so the old mindset of, I define my process and then I use technology to execute that process is actually been flipped. What we need to do is we need to look at the technology, reengineer our process so that it fits the technology. If you try and customize the the current technology to your existing legacy processes, which were invented in the twentieth century, we will not really get the benefits of that investment in technology.

You are you are definitely preaching to the converted there, Ash. I'm I'm a massive believer. I I, in using the tools that you have to the best of their ability because there there's always a danger, that you can, you can be too specific about you want, and there I'd have to say I'm a massive believer in not overdeveloping systems and building you know, because then you lose the flexibility, don't you, in terms of that Yeah. That technology shift. So Yeah. No. Apps that's a that's a great point. So for those of you listening, it's not just me that's saying that. It's, the the all knowing Ash from Siemens AICPA. So that's a good it's a great point, though, Ash, to be very fair.

Yeah.

So so from a from a mindset perspective, is there any so, again, take us back to, you know, those that are listening, you'll get are perhaps new into role and thinking about the first, you know, ninety to a hundred days. What else in terms of mindset should we be thinking about from a personal perspective in terms of how we how we approach that piece?

So as, trained finance professionals, we we really have been trained into being a professional. You know, bringing professional skepticism. We ask all the right questions. And and our training also has caused us to be very process oriented in terms of, sequential and logical process development. And sometimes that goes against us, especially when one is trying to solve problems or when one is trying to drive transformation. So in, in, in that, there's two kind of mindsets that one needs to develop both for oneself as a CFO, but also in, in our teams. The two things I would really recommend embracing is understanding the workings of agile. So, really looking at agile methodology and adopting not for technology rollout, but understanding the agile way, understanding how you can test and learn and implement in small increments. And you don't have to get the whole thing right first time. So experimentation and, innovating, around the first test and learn cycle, bringing people in from other groups and and how you approach that takes me to problem solving. So an agile mindset and a problem solving mindset is, is what I would say, CFOs need to be thinking about. So I talked about the agile methodology and the other methodology is design thinking. And design thinking really enables finance to break that, that that chain of, logical sequential process and and try and deliver and and solve problems by really understanding, the landscape by really exploring with all the partners how we could perhaps solve this problem and then building a prototype, which again goes to that test and learn type environment, and and really use that prototype and and learn from it. So very related, but two methodologies that I would really encourage CFOs to embrace is the agile methodology and, design thinking. And perhaps that kind of completes that compendium of some of these new skill sets. Yes, there is lean and there is six sigma and and, you know, those type of, project management and performance management, and change management techniques can can be brought in. But I really think for CFOs to really understand and leverage the agile and the design thinking is, is another mindset change that requires to help.

And that's a tough shift, isn't it? If we think about, you know, where, you know, finance are expected to be the the cautionary ones, you know, from a his if we think historically, that shift into that problem solving creative thinker, it could be quite challenging for those that, you know, could and while still maintaining that steady hand on the Rudder and that that sort of that, that governance piece. So how do CFOs balance, you know, the development of those skills along with, you know, the the the, maintaining the trust of the organization. And, you know, because it's, it's a, it's a bit of a balancing act in some ways.

It is. And it brings us back full circle. And, I think that's a nice kind of close as we go forward in terms of it's those two pillars. It's the governance and the guidance, and one needs to balance the governance because you cannot, not deliver what is required on the control compliance, the accuracy of reporting not to be in the front page of the financial times for the wrong reasons. Right. That, that is absolutely critical. And that is why CFOs are, you know, primarily charged with they're charged with that governance, to, to ensure that, there's compliance with policies, regulations, etcetera. And, and one cannot take their eyes off that. So having built that foundation, having that strong foundation, one then goes further up. So, I see it as a three step process. The first step is, process excellence. And the process excellence makes sure that you have the required systems and processes and controls in place, and you have engaged with automation, etcetera. You you've got your processes spot on. That gives you the foundation to move towards kind of business intelligence. And and then you're going towards that data and data analytics and data to decision, decision to execution type mode. And you're building capability in the business intelligence. And then finally, when you have that capability in terms of business intelligence, you then move towards the influence and and really having business influence. And that comes with the absolute solid foundation of that process excellence, the digital intelligence. And then you can really deliver that business influence and be, creating value and co creating value, with the rest of the organization.

And so for those that are perhaps looking either to develop into that CFO role and they perhaps listen to this and going, there's a lot that I maybe need to to work on or, you know, some some good self, analysis in there. What is the pathway that you would be recommending, and, you know, in terms of steps and support systems that they should have in place, perhaps before they they look to step into that role and as they go into that first role?

So I I think there's a three-dimensional approach. One is you have to be absolutely deeply, you you need to have that expertise, the technical expertise. That's that's the depth in the profession in a professional qualification. You then need to have the width across the business business strategy, really understanding the importance of business models, digital skills. And and so that's kind of the the the the width and and the breadth that one needs to cover. And the third dimension is around really being exposed to the right experiences, not just be on a finance track, see if you can move, and and use that lattice approach, which is used, so often in in our talks in terms of, you know, the the ladder just doesn't go, you know, one way, you have to shift and perhaps spend time in other parts of the business, spend time in operations, spend time in marketing and sales if you can, try and, move around the business, and really get that, experience. So it's experiential having the right mentors and being on a journey that really exposes you to a wider, area of practice than just finance. Those would be the three things that I would really encourage aspiring CFOs, to be focused on.

For those that are lucky enough to be stepping into their first CFO role, and maybe feeling hopefully very excited, but maybe slightly nervous. What are your top tips for the first ninety days in that CFO role?

So first ninety days, and and again, here, if you're new to that organization, understand the business, understand the business model, and really collaborate across all the functions, understand their needs, and understand how you could be a better business partner to them, and serve their needs. And if you have been in the organization within the organization for a while and, you've been promoted up to the CFO, it's really about, reaching out to those that you might have, you know, step over to become the CFO. And it's important to retain them. It's happened to me several times and, I've had to, you know, reach out to these people and assure them of the future, assure them of a vision, have a very clear strategy for your finance function, share that strategy across within your team, and have, visibility across the organization as to how finance will engage with the rest of the business to create value. And and so communication, is absolutely critical in terms of the first ninety days. Communicate your intent, create this strategic view, create a vision and mission for finance and get your people along. Don't neglect the human dimension. Those would be some of the key things to address in the first ninety days.

Well, that is a great way to finish the podcast. Ash, thank you so much for sharing your insight and knowledge and experience. And I think for all of those listening, there's some great tips to take away both in terms of mindset and skills and some practical sort of next steps for those first interval. So thank you so much, Ash. It's been wonderful having you on the podcast. You've been a great guest.

Thank you very much. It was a delight to, be here and, talk to you, Hannah.

Brilliant. Thank you, Ash.

Thank you.

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