Well, there there were two aspects of demography that there's almost the beginning and the end piece of this. As a society in the UK in particular, though we are not at the bottom, but we are towards the bottom. We are not Yeah. Having enough children in society. The birth rate is declining and continues to decline. So what does that mean? It means, effectively, although you get some peak years, the number of people entering the workforce is decreasing. The advances in medicine the shift more towards preventative rather than, reactive care, means we're living longer. So you've got more people in the workforce proportionately above what classically would have been the retirement age, and you've got less people entering the workforce. And if you look holistically, economically, that probably means that everybody needs to work a bit longer and probably needs to work a bit longer. So that's the balance of this democracy debate. And and the UK is right in the center of that of actually, we've gotta cope with an aging population that we sort of society can't quite afford. Mhmm. Yeah. We're we're paying pensions for, you know, upwards of twenty, twenty five years. Yet when in history, if you go back to the state pension, it was in June nineteen o eight, I think it was. And my daughter and I saw this in a sign at the Imperial War Museum over the Christmas break. You paid it out for about four years on average.

Wow.

We're now paying it out for twenty five, thirty years on average. Yes. We're extending that out, and we're pushing retirement ages out. And if you take again, my daughter, my daughter's around sixteen. The anticipated date she can retire is probably will will get a state pension. Let me rephrase that. It's probably about seventy eight.

Wow.

But if you look at the survey data that that sits behind this report in the UK, about forty seven percent, so nearly sixty percent nearly fifty half of our respondents said, oh, I'm gonna retire between sixty and sixty nine. And that was even those that were in their twenties and thirties now. So we're not getting that message that, economically, we have a challenge. The good news, and there is some good news here, if you take an IMF study, somebody that is seventy today has a cognitive ability of somebody that was fifty three in the year two thousand.

Wow. That's an interesting subject.

Mentally, we can work longer, and mentally, we probably do want to work longer.

Yeah.

But somewhere along the line, we need to think about how we create a career that is more paced Mhmm. Is more adapted to that longer life expectancy and that need to work longer. So you get concepts like micro retirements. You know, taking a career break is not negative. It's a positive.

Yeah.

How do you pace yourself longer? How do you keep that cognitive ability growing? And I think as as we get more into the human machine bit, you need that cognitive ability more, so you need to stay fresher longer. So that's how it affects careers. It it comes back to how do I pace my career, how do I think about my career. One last solitary fact just to add to this. If you look at the economics of this, anybody entering the workforce today needs to start saving for a pension basically now. And in fact, some financial institutions in the UK will sell you a pension if you are twelve years old.

Wow. That is new. At least I think it's new. It's not something that I considered at twelve. I can definitely

Definitely not. But but that if you think about how long you need to you may live in retirement.

That's

It's about pace in a different life, and it's about pace in a different career. And you you talk to me again about the pace of change. Well, that pace of change is gonna accelerate. So what my daughter will see is very different from the career speed change that you and I have seen, Hannah.

And you mentioned that interesting piece around, you know, the cognitive capability of a Mhmm. I think you said a seventy seventy something year old is what was a fifty three year old.

Correct. Yeah.

What's driving that? Is it is that we're we're we're thinking more, we're thinking less, our health matters differently? Or

Yes. So some of it is to do with health and and the fact that we are we are more aware of health problems. We manage them better. I I said a moment ago about switching increasingly towards preventative from reactive health. And the longer that happens, the longer we can maintain a lifestyle. We're we're more conscious of being fitter.

Okay.

We're more conscious of how to maintain our psychological balance better. So all of those add up to why that cognitive ability has changed. But what it does mean is the motivation to work is a lot longer, and the economic need to work is a lot longer. And the population is is different to that that we were traditionally used to. So we have got to keep people on. What we can't afford to do, and and picture we drew we're doing the report, that doesn't mean that everybody will be a senior manager all their careers.

Yeah.

It means that you may need to step back and think about, well, actually, what is it I can add? Otherwise, we just get people logjamming, and and that's also another risk.

So we'll get into what this means, but let's just just roll back around into societal expectations. So what was what's driving some of the changes there? How is that impacting how we view careers?

Okay. So societal and personal are quite interconnected, so I'll I'll talk about the two together. In society, what most as I said, what motivates you, may anybody listening to this come to work? We traditionally think of two things. We think of pay and reward, and we increasingly think about work life balance. Okay? In society terms, pay is defined historically as, you know, I produce something. My company sells that for an amount of money, and I get a proportion of that as my salary. Mhmm. Okay? Simple production services, you can use the same analogy. As we go forwards, increasing the level of automation in the workplace, it's not the human that is generating that value add, it is the machine. So at what point does the human start to get the financial role for the effort of the machine as that workforce dynamic starts to change? And does that machine mean that as a human, I will not need to work five days a week, I will work four days a week going forward. And there's an academic debate about, you know, in three, four, five, ten years' time, will we move from essentially five days a week to four days a week, etcetera. And there there is a a trend. Our survey results tend to suggest people haven't thought that one through yet, but but there is a different trend. The other question I got asked when I was talking about this report to a group of university students, a couple of weeks ago was, well, what does that mean about, guaranteed minimum wages in society? You know, the concept that, you know, no matter what you do, there is a minimum wage, which is more than the living wage. It's not that concept. It's a a minimum guaranteed income that society gives you because that's what you you'll share the benefit of society overall. And the Swiss talked about this a few years ago. The Swedish Mhmm. Swedes talked about it. And is that the future? So this question about what motivates us to work, is it all about work life balance, is it all about purpose, is it all about reward, etcetera? You start to get some fundamental shifts. Yet we know and if you look at any of the data, paying rewards still is significant, but particularly for those entering the workplace who economically can't afford, you know, houses, etcetera, something somewhere has to change. So there are various things about why we work that change quite dramatically and that balance between how much I work and when I don't work and what I do with the time when I don't work per se.

Yeah. So and what I guess what's interesting is that if we just say we did move to that model of a universal income, then then we're in the conversation about what's, like you say, what's the motivation to work. If it's not paying for board, why do you go to work in the first place if you have enough to cover what, you know, what what you need? And is there any research around that and how that that's viewed?

Not dramatically. It tends to be the sort of backstop concept, I suppose, that that guaranteed universal income is a is an economic concept, but nobody's actually got to the point of really evaluating what it what it would mean. What I think is is sort of clear is that as we increasingly use more technology, and we I know we said we're part technology, but we can't ignore it in the in the conversation.

That's where we're going next.

That's where we're going next. Yeah. As we increase the use of technology, as this human machine balance interface, whatever you wanna call it, starts to develop more, it probably means that we do release more time to do other things. But those other things may be more of society benefit than simply being what you and I traditionally call leisure time. So yeah. Yes. As a society, we develop more, let's say, caring roles that are funded by various means or or we spend more time outside work doing things for other people and society rather than simply the balance we have at the moment. There's a concept called work life blend as opposed to work life balance, which is the engagement of this sort of constant work, constant balance with life outside work, and that being a constant change rather than the defined thing of this is work now and that's leisure, That's life outside. So that more constancy, but more flexibility as well growing.

And and then so let's go to the, you know, the elephant in the room about technology. Yeah. Right? You know, we we've we've waited for to for us to get there. But so because, obviously, the the the buzzword at the moment is AI.

When

we say, like, technology is impacting, do we just mean AI, or are there other things that are impacting to it's you know, that are impacting careers that aren't AI specific?

I think the answer is it's all interconnected. But it is not just about what you're what you, I, and able listening might think is AI as such. You know, we could debate for separate podcast. You don't write what is AI, and we'd still be talking about that for an hour or more. What what are the trend what are the big trends in technology? What is a change fabricator society? It's about one strand is about this medical care, the evolution of of the human in that sense, and moving us increasingly onto more preventative care, and therefore, it's sending life and and treating us more. That technological revolution we're at the start of, we're not the end of, and and that will change the dynamics of how we live quite dramatically. You've got computing power, which will continue to grow. So our ability to model what we do, our ability to use technology more continues to grow, but also the connectivity of that technology into the workplace, into the home, etcetera, continues to grow. And then you've got AI, and then you've got artificial general intelligence as streams that will roll forward. What does it mean and and what have I very carefully said in the report? It's not a question of the human being replaced by the machine. It's a question of the human and the machine working together in a way where the human understands what it is to add value to the things that the machine cannot do. And if you look at any aspect of AI or or technology, it is still a question of the human adding value, the analysis, the interpretation, those kind of things. So how do we have the skill set in our careers to add value to the machine rather than worry about being replaced by the machine? That doesn't mean that some roles will evolve, and we've already seen you know, impacts on APAR, r two r roles, etcetera. We all know about that. But what we need to understand is how we reframe those roles to be working with the machine rather than being replaced by the machine. Because there are always gonna be data issues. There are always gonna be supervisory roles. There are always gonna be analytical roles that sit around the machine. So it's it's about understanding that balance. The other thing I think we will increasingly see and are seeing is integrated data flows between organizations as well as within organizations. So it it so connectivity invoicing and that's Exactly. Yeah. E invoicing, increasing data flows across supply chains, not just the invoicing transaction, but also, you know, through the the whole supply chain itself.

So let's just talk about that machine human balance because Mhmm. From from my perspective, I think there is an interesting paradox coming to us in that Mhmm. We're saying that the value of the humans is the experience that they they have to give to that machine to educate, support, and validate what's being put out. Yet when we when you hear people talk about the power of technology, the the talk is about replacing those entry level roles where a skill set isn't necessarily needed. So how do we find the balance as a society, I guess, about bringing up the next generation of experienced individuals whilst we have machines that are purported to be able to deliver on that role potentially without all of the the level of training and support and mentoring and everything that's required. What what does that mean, I guess, for how we think about careers?

To transfer that, let's take a step back a a little bit and talk about organizations and where we think about organizations and roles in organizations. We're very used to that classic construct of the pyramid. Perfect. Broad number of roles at the bottom. As you go up the pyramid, it shrinks. That's probably the the was construct. Mhmm. We're going through a change. We we one, we've seen what they call the hourglass, which is where we've had the squeeze middle. So we've removed a lot of the middle managerial roles.

Yep.

We're almost now getting towards the the converse of that where you get this sort of what they turn the diamond shaped structure. And what's the diamond shape structure mean? It means that in that balance of the human adding value to the machine, there are more roles that are to do with analytics, insight, and deep specialism. And I will put in a number of accounting roles like treasury, corporate finance, sustainability, you know, anything that is a deep specialist skill that requires analysis, interpretation. There are lots of those roles in the middle of an organization and fewer roles at the entry point because that's where the technology, as we've said, will rightly kick in. And probably fewer roles actually at the top Because if you think about trends like a Genentech AI, building agent doesn't look in the same way that you and I look at organizational structures and and silos and the finance department and the procurement department and whatever it may be. The agent just spans. So leadership needs to span and it be less defined. What it does mean is we need to get people in their careers earlier into those analytical skills and that experience and find ways of bringing people in where we can grow them into those specialist roles. Mhmm. But those specialist roles need good interpersonal skills. They need good communication skills. They need good strategic skills. And one thing I I comment on the report, if we don't think about the education system going backwards and saying, well, what comes out of tertiary or what comes out of secretary education, then we're not having the right conversation. And as I point out in the report in the UK, there is some work going on now about redefining what accountancy degrees look like to give a better balance of that, and which is all to the good. But we've got to think differently about what we mean by an entry level role and how we give people that springboard of experience in the interpersonal analytical skills that we haven't necessarily thought we needed to to traditionally. So it it it links very much that diamond based structure. Does that make sense, Hannah?

It it does. And I think there's an interesting piece, isn't there, isn't that we've got less people coming up through the ranks anyway because we talked about the the balance in the older years versus the younger years. Right? So for me, that that hourglass in some ways makes more sense because you've got less people too to come in at that proximal level. So that's that's the value of the machine. It allows society to make choices about the, you know, what we do with the the birth rate, etcetera. But I also think it's interesting. And I say this from as a perspective is that is that so very often, people come out with academic qualifications into the workplace but not having a commercial awareness. And I think that's a challenge, for most entry level roles. That understanding of how the world works versus the theory of how the world works is very different, and I think that's an interesting challenge. And how do we address that either with qualifications, with types of training? How do we bring those people up without necessarily because they're not gonna get the exposure that the rest of us had to working our way up in different jobs and different people and, you know, they're not necessarily gonna have that. So that for me is fast that that I find interesting. I guess it means we need to be better at trading and developing people rather than less because we've got to get them there faster.

Yes. And I I think that's right. So a couple of things I would add to that apart from hundred percent agreeing what you said. In the report, I talk about a balance of knowledge, skills, and attitude. Mhmm. And we're very good at teaching the knowledge. We don't quite teach skills. We don't try to teach attitude. There was I'm referring to it in the report, but there's also some work LinkedIn have done recently, in the UK specifically looking at expectations of those entering the workforce in terms of promotion. Mhmm. Yeah. They want a promotion or anticipate a promotion quicker. Two reasons for that, I think. One, because promotion is also about economic well-being. Yeah. And and we know that's part of a problem, the entry level roles as well. But secondly, it's also about accelerate recognize the acceleration of their own abilities quicker. So we have got to think what that means as we reshape what the workforce means. But it's how do I give those skills quicker? How do I develop the learning programs quicker in organizations to springboard people. But, by the way, you're actually sort of pushing an open door because that's what people want.

Yeah.

So it it's about balancing as to the other point I making, it goes very much to the whole learning piece. Careers are now what you call hyper personalized. They're flexible. They're squiggly. You can use any of these terms. What does that mean? It means that there aren't standard pathways anymore. That that development cycle that the way you develop is about my career, and my career will look different to your career.

Mhmm.

So we can't have the one size fits all learning programs we used to have. It's about how do I create that just in time learning to progress somebody in the right way, and how do I as an individual take responsibility for that rather than expecting my employer to necessarily have a one size fits all program which is gonna work for me no matter how big or small that employer is. And I think that's the other side of the learning piece of the hyper personalized career pushes more responsibility onto me as individual to make sure I've got those skills and and prove I can demonstrate those skills. And when the employer looks, the CV is moving from that chronology into, yeah, how, Hannah, can I demonstrate that I have the experience that shows I have curiosity? Mhmm. And how do I show I've got the ability to be analytical? And by the way, what tools can I use to be analytical? So it's moving away from, oh, I spent five years in. And a lot of people ask about employment and attraction, and that's part of that debate as well, I think.

So we talked about hyper personalization, and that's sort of a an outcome of this changing environment. What are some of the other outcomes that you're anticipating seeing?

So careers are no longer linear. There there isn't that standard progression. It it's all very flexible. It is about your own career choices and where you want to go. What is gonna make you successful in that flexible world? It's a core set of robust interpersonal skills, collaboration, empathy, storytelling, strategic skills, so business acumen, you referred to that a moment ago, Hannah, resilience. But above all, the word is curiosity. And in this human machine world, creating trust in untrusted world where the machine may not necessarily give you the right answer, and we can talk about biases as well, and ethics of AI and all of that. Having curiosity to know to be able to sit back and say, is this the right answer? Am I able to get the right advice? Is what defines a human against machine. The worrying thing was in the survey that sits behind the report, we gave a whole list of skills, which ones would you grow, etcetera. Classic question. In the UK, seventy percent of people said AI and technology. Unsurprising. Forty two percent said analytics. Nine percent said curiosity.

Wow. That's fascinating. Yeah.

Curiosity is

Curiosity is is Yeah. Is like the why. Yeah. What why do you

think think they've got it or they don't understand that it's a skill that defines them.

Or the importance of it. Like and I think but as somebody, right, that goes into a lot of organizations, it is fascinating that my job sometimes as a consultant is just to ask the silly question that kind of like, why do we do it that way? And and what you know? And you can guarantee that one in three, if not more, will say because we've always done it that way. So I do think lack of curiosity and a focus on I just need to get stuff done is part is almost part of how we're you know, what's the word? Is part of the culture that, I guess, sometimes we can be brought into. And and I think that's that's almost a challenge, isn't it, is that curiosity is as much a skill as it is a, an attribute that or a characteristic.

Absolutely right. And and, yes, there are techniques like critical thinking you can use behind it as a technique.

Mhmm.

But that innate culture of curiosity, that skill set of being resilient enough to ask that question. Yeah. Yeah. My days of training consultants, the technique of five why is, you know, you keep asking why until you get to the the course. If we're not embedding that, as you said, if we are not changing and recognizing the world around us has changed, then what career have we got going forward? It's gonna be those that adapt and see the need to adapt that are gonna thrive. And if you sit back and say it won't happen to me, unfortunately, it may well happen to you.

And I I I'll be interested to know because what what I very often see until you get to that senior level and very often, it's only once you actually get into that senior level that people understand the value of the softer skills of, you know, how people can manage change or those kind of things. What was the what was the view, I guess, on the balance between technical, AI, technology, analytical skills versus not just curiosity, but the the whole range of softer skills, communication, you know, change management, all those kind of emotional awareness. How how, I guess, how aware are we about the importance of those as we go into this AI era?

I think the answer is we're aware, but we don't know why we should be as aware as we need to be. Yeah. You you're right. It's easy to have a conversation saying we've all got to improve our software skills. The technical skills and I I put in bucket of technical skills, three things. Your core accounting skills and your core business skills, so that that's one group. Your data skills. Mhmm. So how do I organize, manage, work with data? Your technology skills. And I don't mean we're all gonna be data scientists. I don't mean we're all gonna be IT professionals. What I mean is I need to be consciously competent with both of those. Mhmm. I need to know how to get the best advantage of the machine. Mhmm. That is another fundamental block of skills I need if I'm to be truly flexible in my career. Because the difference between the human and the machine is the human knows how to use the machine. The human takes advantage of the technology, and they have the ability to analyze, interpret, and communicate those answers. Whereas the machine can present the results, but can't necessarily argue the point, if you like. Now when you get to artificial general intelligence, you may be getting somewhere down the line. I appreciate that. But for the moment, think about what differentiates us from the machine and build those skill sets.

Yeah. You say that, but what was quite interesting is I think GPT has put in a, a way of talking to people that encourages them to use it more. So a way of positively spinning and complimenting as it gives answers to try and have some of that. And it's, you know, the first wave of emotional intelligence, which is, for me, is fascinating, in terms of how that works.

But at the end of the day, any piece of AI is still a predictive model.

Yeah.

It it's using a form of statistics to say this is what, Hannah, I think you want me to tell you. Yeah. And and and what we are, wherever we look, the ability to stand back and be that true trusted adviser, and and you and I have used referred to Meister in these podcasts before, is absolutely fundamental. And as a as a professional, what in society is the role of a profession?

Mhmm.

And and this is one of the questions we ask, and and we talked across a number of professions. We consulted with other professions as well in answering this. We used to be the owners of a rule book. We used to be the people that understood the chapter and verse of how you did accounting. Well, as you say, I can go and search that in chat GPT or whatever your your choice is now. So what are we? We are the we have to be the people that add the trusted analysis and interpretation of those rules in the context that the question is asked. Now the the best way to frame that is an example the surveyor has used. You know, I I want to remodel my kitchen or or or whatever. I tend to take a photograph. I can put that into chat GPT. It can give me this wonderful view of what my kitchen should look like. Mhmm. I have no clue whether it will structurally stand up or where the RSJ needs to go in that room. Yeah. The thing possibly can fall over. What is the role of the surveyor? The role of the chartered surveyor is add the integrity to what is possible from the vision. The role of the accountant is add the integrity to what is possible for the organization given the data that's presented to them. So that is a nuance in how we think about professions, but it's it's why professions still need to exist.

And you talked about curiosity as a as a key skill. And in the report, there are a number of other key skills that that were mentioned in terms of you know, that are vital for you to be able to have this long and flexible career.

Mhmm.

What tell

us a little bit about some of those

Okay.

Skills.

So I think we touched on quite a few in the conversation. Firstly, that sense of business acumen Mhmm. Of of strategy, a business understanding. We talked about experience and how do we give people entering the workforce greater experience quicker. That that is a fundamental skill. Resilience and adaptability and the ability to cope with this very far sense of change that we're gonna experience and and will continue to experience. We talked about that at the start of this conversation. The sense of collaboration and being, entrepreneurial as well as entrepreneurial, We probably see, as we refer to as well, that the organization, the future is not bounded by the traditional roles that you and I grew up with. You know, that there's procurement down the corridor over there. There's accounting that way. The the future organization is about the sum of the total talents added together in a in an innovative, creative, responsible environment or, sorry, responsive environment. So being able to be collaborative outside your domain is fundamentally important. And being empathetic, High levels of emotional intelligence because, yes, as you said, chat EPT can get to point to some level, but it is still what defines the human is how the human relates to the human.

Yeah.

And if you haven't got all of that in your kit bag, the technical skills can be good, but it's still not differentiating you from the machine.

So we talked a lot about obviously, we talked about the what what's driving some of these changes. We talked about what changes might be what are happening. And we've also talked about what are the skills with the focus on the soft skills needed. When you looked and you had all of these conversations, what concerned you most about what you found?

The we can have the conversation. I think it comes more from the survey results rather than the the conversations we had that sat behind the report. That we don't appreciate what you said at the very start of this conversation, speed at which the world is changing

Mhmm.

And the fact that we probably all do need to continue to adapt. Yeah. In the report, we there's a graph which starts to ask the question, well, what roles are gonna be replaced? And if you look at that graph and there's a quote underneath it in the report, which I put in, that graph tells me basically what you and I think today, yet people ask to think about five years hence. So we're not doing the thinking about preparing ourselves for tomorrow. We're we're doing oh, well, we would just roll forwards and roll with the go with the flow sort of thing. So you you see, literally, it says APAR R2R Roles disappearing, but it doesn't actually when you think about it, there are other roles in the finance community that will disappear or substantially change, and we haven't understood the ripple effects.

Yeah. Because, you know And this You know, being a CFO is normally a pinnacle of a career. Yeah. You know? It's it's it's not normally a role that you step into at the start. So, you know, for those CFOs that are sitting there going, yeah. But I'm I'm I'm like, I've got maybe one, maybe two more roles before I finish or I'm, you know, I'm on my I'm on my exit plan.

Mhmm.

What would you say to them? Is it still something that they need to think about and consider?

Yes. Because one of the greatest concerns, and it's not just the CFO community, it's also the the partner community and the other side of the the profession, is are we growing the talent that we need five years, ten years down the line? And you asked me what question came up most in conversations. It was that concern of are we developing enough talent to enable me to exit workforce in the way I want to. And nobody really has a feeling that we're actually doing that.

And on that, I guess, that theme, how exposed is the UK to all of these factors in terms of are we in the middle of the road? Is this something all developing countries are hitting? Or because of our professional services focus, are we more likely to need to jump on this before?

Yes. We're in the middle of the road, but not in the way you probably think

Okay.

Is the answer. Mhmm. Because when you dig into the survey results, Yes. The UK and and Europe as a whole sit smack bang in the middle of the the numbers.

Yeah.

If you go to Africa, there's a greater sense of optimism. If you go to China, the results are far more conservative.

Mhmm.

So levels of optimism lower. Levels of sense of adoption of technology being stronger in Africa, weaker in China, for example. And not often in ACCA research do we see marked regional differences. This was one time when you started to see very different pictures coming through. What it does sort of tell you is Europe is sort of at this point, and I put the UK into Europe in this context, is sort of a point where it needs to make a decision as to where it wants to go. You know? Are we growing or are we slowly declining? And the the survey results sort of build that out in a clear sense. So Europe and the UK is on this cusp of, you know, growth. It's Africa's century sort of notion, which you get quite a lot in in research. China being the decline, where does Europe fit in? What is it the careers we want to build? Where economically do we want to go? And how do we deal with being at at a more aging population when we need to grow careers in a way to keep us in the workforce longer. So there are some interesting questions about where the UK and and border Europe sits. Interestingly, North America sits more towards Africa in the positivity than Europe.

Interesting. Yeah. That is interesting.

Which may be a slight factor of the demographics of survey respondents in North America, just to put a word of caution in that. But it does come across far more positive

Mhmm.

Than Europe sitting in the center. So it's not a developed world question in the survey data.

So I could probably spend the next two hours working your brain. I'm very aware that, we have a no a typical time limit for a podcast. And I and I think what's really important in this is that we we think we talk about what do we need to do now as both leaders within our organizations, but also, I guess, guardians of the future of finance and what that means. What is it that you would encourage the CFOs, the future CFOs, and those listening to this podcast to think about in terms of what that means, I guess, for them personally, but also for their teams. What should they be considering?

First thing, can I say, I think this is a positive story? And if we've come across as here are a list of problems, deal with them, that's not the the intention. It is a positive story. Yeah. There are massive opportunities. The work life blend can be so much better if we get this human machine balance in the right way. So can I just stress this is a positive story? And I think it's just it's

definitely there, isn't it? Like, you know, we talk about wanting to be able to switch off at, at five o'clock. Like, how many CFOs actually turn their off after five? Right?

Yeah.

I think a lot of us can sit there and go, yes. I'd I'd quite like I like how we're using the new word work life blend, how that can be more, in keeping. And, also, I think there is something to to be said about that cognitive improvement.

You know?

Mhmm. We're functioning better. We are living longer. That's that's all really positive stuff.

So I think the message is understand what we've talked about today and the changes that are probably coming down the line.

Yeah.

Think about how you plan towards the future, and don't let the future plan you.

Yeah. It's it I I think that's a really good point is that we actually do need to do something. It's not a sit and wait and see right now. We do need to be thinking about how we're developing those softer skills and how, I guess, how our teams are developing that because Yep. I guess we have a, you know, I always say an obligation, but a duty to our team to make sure that they're prepared.

And and think about your balance of the workforce differently. That it that those that may be more mature in years aren't people who you necessarily want to exit the workforce in the way that you traditionally did. Think about how you appeal to the the entrance into the workforce given that that pool is not as broad as it used to be. That requires different strategies. It's about change challenging some of the balances of your perception of what careers are and what your workforce needs to be going forwards and not just writing generations off because stereotypes fit in a certain way.

And I I can say that personally. I I think it's quite interesting in that there's there's an amazing set of abilities and knowledge and talent in in the older generations that we're not harnessing because we have that, like you say, that perception of who they are and what they want. You know? I think a lot some of some of the conversations I've had recently been super interesting about, you know, they they want to add value. They they don't necessarily want to hold the reins and be the person in charge, but they they they have so much to bring, and they're not ready to finish. Yeah. They want it going. So I think that's that's an interesting piece, isn't it? Maybe thinking about those those demographics and and we and like you say, your our perceptions of who people are and what they want maybe need to change in terms of the value that

And in the online version of the report, we put two articles from advocacy groups. Let me call them those. One representing those entering the workforce and some changes and those at the more mature end of the workforce. So it's interesting if yeah. They're short articles. Go and read them. They just give you an insight into how you perhaps need to think differently. Mhmm. So

So yeah. So so if I maybe sum up, so it's been a great conversation as always. Right? And interesting, I guess, to hear the journey of thought that you guys go through to get to the results. So so I think what's important is to understand that careers aren't going to be linear and that as we move into this increasingly technology evolved, generation of workforces, we need to be aware of those soft skills because that's the value that we add to that machine piece.

Mhmm.

I think the key piece is that this isn't going away. Sticking your head in the sand isn't going to fix it, so we actually do need to start thinking about this. But also maybe understanding how and thinking about how the demographics could impact the changes that we're seeing could impact your organization both now and in the future and making sure that you're thinking about how you address that. Is there anything else that I've missed? What are your

I think that's a brilliant summary, Hannah. Thank you.

I was paying attention. I promise, Clive. So I wanna say a massive thank you, Clive. As as always, I love our conversations, and it's it's it's so interesting to explore, you know, the the landscape that we've been that we live and work in. If people wanna read the report, because it is actually an, like, it it is genuinely interesting. There's a huge amount of information in that. Some of it, we have not even managed to dig into, though we've tried to cover as much as we can. Where where is the best place to find it, and what's the name of the report so everyone's aware

of it? I I think, in the show notes here, there's a link to the online version, which is Yeah. A more summary version. There are some interviews. There are some, videos in there as well, which give you the highlights. So click on that link. If you can't find it, then go to the ACCA website, go to policy and insights. And if you search for career paths reimagined, you will find all the content there.

Fantastic. Thank you so much, Clive. And to our listeners, you know, like, part of this is I always try to find the balance between practical, like, day to day pieces and thinking about what the future holds for finance and what that means for us individually and for finance as a workforce. So if you have enjoyed this podcast, if you'd like more on these kind of topics, I'd love to hear from you. If you've enjoyed it and you wanna rate it, please like, share, leave us a review because it's always great to get those kind of responses and allows us to reach more people with our content. So thank you so much, Clive, for joining me, and, yeah, we'll see you next time on the CFO four point o podcast. Thanks, Clive.

Bye.

So for those of you that don't know what we do here at ITAR, so we are a financial transformation consultancy that specializes in Sage Technologies, whether that is looking at a new solution, evaluating your current solution, or just helping you to get the most out of your current setup, we can help. But rather than me tell you all the reasons that you should consider working with us as a Sage partner or a transformation consultancy partner. I'm gonna let our customers do the talking for us.

Hi, Tasper there from the from the sort of get go helping us, you know, talking through what the process is going to involve, setting expectations, you know, making it clear that how much work we were going to have to put in to make sure that the project was a success at the at the end, and then talking us through all our different options, looking through our current processes, making us reevaluate what was important, which elements we wanted to, move across to the new system, how we wanted to configure our new system and also kind of making us sit back and really think about what is the success of this project when we get to the other end, when we finish the implementation and we're in the system, what's success going to look like? And actually, you know, putting that question back to us and really making us sit down and think about what is it that we that we are looking to gain, from this whole process was really useful internally making us really think about the key objectives and which areas to maybe prioritise over others. It was also really helpful sitting down and thinking about it rather than one big huge project actually splitting it down into different phases, sort of smaller bite sized chunks which made it seem a little bit more achievable within the time. And then thankfully, ITAS have been super flexible with us during this process because it all it happened to coincide our implementation with our first ever financial audit, which just took up huge amounts of our time that we didn't expect. So we did have to, slightly push back some of our go live dates and and thankfully itas were accommodating and actually helped us navigate through through that process and like to say that thankfully we're out the other side of our first days of go live and, yeah loving the move to Intact.